physical activity & exercise

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severe lactic acid

Postby sweetybandit on Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:42 pm

I have pretty severe lactic acid pain. Cant dry my hair or somedays cant even lift shoulders. It has mainly been upper body but more recently it is affecting thighs and calves. I cant exersize that is a ridiculous assumption when it causes so much pain but I have been able to walk my dog for 5 yrs however we started off at 40 mins down to 15 mins most days now. Stairs are getting difficult. I find The fact that im only offered psych help truly offensive. It says a lot about what the medical proffesion thinks of me even my dr thinks its nonsense. SO what do I do. How do I get rid of lactic acid. Read research about how people with ME have 20 x more lactic acid than "normal people" Isnt my heart a muscle?
I have no help from anyone. Im not depressed even though the psych tried to tell me it was "subconcious" stress that I didn't realise I had. I need help to get well and ive tried magnesium and multi vits etc etc diet and pacing and here I am........I need something constructive. There is a huge amount of research out there now. So how do I get rid of lactic acid pain?
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Re: severe lactic acid

Postby ChrisofCabra on Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:30 pm

sweetybandit wrote:...I find The fact that im only offered psych help truly offensive.

Just to say you are far from alone in being told that the issue is at core psychological, and far from alone in thinking that such a response is insulting and unhelpful. It is not just you.

I've been lucky enough to be in a part of the country where that is not the dominant paradigm in place.
Otherwise I've not the slightest doubt I'd have been marked down as being in denial, and as being argumentative and uncooperative.

On things to do, the experts should get first comment on that.

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Re: severe lactic acid

Postby sweetybandit on Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:29 am

Thanks chris It seems im still waiting for an expert to reply. This is a major problem for many with ME. People who go to the gym daily could not live with the acid "burn " all day everyday and be expected to work through it. I read somewhere that the muscle texture changes and that we have 20 x more lactic acid. Are major organs like my heart not muscle? Im sorry if I have repeated myself due to cognitive function I canr remember what I put lol xx I wud love an answer to this pleeeezzeee ANYONE xx
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Re: severe lactic acid

Postby peggy-sue on Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:52 pm

Still waiting for an expert?

I was watching a tv programme recently, where a greyhound racer was busily feeding tins of tomatoes to her dogs - because she said tomatoes helped reduce lactic acid build-up in the dogs when they were running.

I have no idea whether or not there is any scientific validity to this, but tinned tomatoes are nice and they're cheap and they're full of antioxidants and lycopenes.
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Re: severe lactic acid

Postby Mimetic442 on Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:15 pm

Lactic acid build up is one of my worst symptoms.

In 22 years of having M.E & by following advice on exercise, I have seen no improvement
or tolerance to lactic acid. CBT & GET have done nothing for this particular problem & I have received no advice at all on an appropriate medicinal intervention.

I'd be most grateful for an expert answer to this subject.

Many thanks.
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Re: severe lactic acid

Postby peggy-sue on Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:21 pm

I just stop and wait until the pain has gone, then carry on for a few steps further, then stop again.

I find the pain eases faster if I stand with my legs a bit bent.
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Re: severe lactic acid

Postby Jessica Bavinton on Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:49 pm

Dear sweetybandit

Muscle pain can be, as in your case, a significant issue for people with CFS/ME.

People tend to find it may have a generally constant impact, but gets worse:

1) When being 'over-active' - ie doing more than the body is entirely happy with
2) When resting too much, or being 'under-active' as the muscles weaken considerably making it much harder to do things.

So, how to improve things?

One thing you can do is to keep a diary of your physical activity and compare this to when the pain is:

a) worse than average
b) better than average

This can give you some clues as to what the 'right' or 'more comfortable' activities are, and how you can adjust activities accordingly to gain more stability.

Whilst it may feel difficult and painful, there is no evidence to suggest that the muscle pain associated with CFS/ME is as s result of any harm being done to the muscles themselves. What we do know is that things can get worse if activity is reduced, and where the overall levels of activity remain low.

It is also thought that poor sleep can impact muscle pain, so it is also worth looking to address any sleep difficulties there may be. Muscle tension can also play a part: so actively undertaking regular relaxation and meditation exercises can also help the muscle pain. 'Mindfulness' and 'body scan' exercises can be particularly helpful.

Ultimately the muscles need to move, and to gradually and carefully build more muscle fibres to improve this longer term: this means gradually and carefully doing more over time, whilst staying at a level at each small increase until the body has adjusted.

Some people also find gentle stretches can help, and warm baths can also improve circulation and help muscle comfort.

Please note that this post does not constitute as individual therapy advice: individual advice should be sought on a one-to-one basis with a therapist
Jessica Bavinton
Specialist Physiotherapist
BSc (Hons) Physiotherapy, MCSP, PVRA, HG (Dip), MBACME
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Jessica Bavinton
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Re: severe lactic acid

Postby kirstenthomson2000 on Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:29 pm

I'm interested by your statement above of 'no evidence' and slightly concerned that a specialist in this area wouldn't be up to date with current research...

Journal of Internal Medicine, Volume 267, Number 4, April 2010 , pp. 394-401(8) ( ... 4/art00006 )

and you can't have failed to notice Julia Newton's recent study being talked about in the popular press, e.g. which is a transcript from The Times.

Thanks, Kx
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Re: severe lactic acid

Postby peggy-sue on Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:27 pm

Exercise will not help the lactic acid problem.
We produce lactic acid at a rate 20 times that of un-sick folk, our bodies refuse to shift into aerobic metabolism.
This is nothing to do with postulated (but unsupported by evidence) theories about "becoming deconditioned through over-resting".
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Re: severe lactic acid

Postby Valentijn on Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:41 pm

The deconditioning theory for causing muscle pain is indeed quite odd.

My leg muscle pain was by far the worst at the very start of my illness, when I was walking very quickly to catch buses and trains after classes. I would get a horrible burn in my calves that was really unbearable - I'd have to sit down and it would take a long time to go away.

Respecting the limitations imposed by my illness has made a huge difference in reducing my pain levels.
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